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 Post subject: General classification of Ocarina anatomy
PostPosted: 01 Jul 2013, 16:21 

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After reading some general confusion regarding the nomenclature used for identifying parts of the ocarina, I felt it might be a good idea to make this thread a compendium of those terms. I will first post an image that identifies the basic parts and terminology most commonly found when referencing the ocarina. They are terms Ive found most often used by makers and enthusiasts however, if anyone has any arguments and would like to debate the terms, this thread can also be used for that until a universally acceptable nomenclature is achieved.

Please feel free to add whatever images, drawings, diagrams, etc you wish that identify various ocarina parts, including multi-chambers, tuning piston equipped ocarinas, keyed systems etc. I would just like to ask that if you do, to indicate the parts visually with a number or arrow, etc.

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 Post subject: Re: General classification of Ocarina anatomy
PostPosted: 01 Jul 2013, 21:29 

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I always love your diagrams Ross, they're so much cuter and tidier than mine! I can't think of anything right now, apart from my personal preference to call the subhole on an eleven hole a 'tuning hole/subhole' seeing as it performs both functions...but that may be nit-picky of me. On a twelve hole i would just call them subholes, because that is their function (and many twelve holes have an additional tuning hole somewhere on the side). And if it were a ten hole with an unreachable tuning hole, i'd call it a tuning hole.

Yeah...i'm being nit-picky :P

Edit: As an afterthought, i wonder what Kurt Posch calls his right thumbhole fingernail indent? I know it isn't a major element and it is definitely specific to him as a maker, but i know Giorgio Cataldi has also done something similar, by making a larger indentation on the butt-side of the left thumbhole to act as a thumb rest for high notes. Maybe there are no names for these things. Oh and the Posch has a neckstrap hole too, again, not a vital element for an ocarina, but many makers have them.

Image

Which reminds me, Italian ocarinas have additional elements like the cappello (have i got the name right?)...but Kres will know more than i do.


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 Post subject: Re: General classification of Ocarina anatomy
PostPosted: 01 Jul 2013, 22:29 

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Yes, the pointy end is the "capello" (according to Google translate this means "hair", though there might be a more appropriate translation) cappello and the body is the corpo (which just translates to body) I think.
Interestingly my Posch doesn't have that indent at the thumbhole, nor does it have a cappello. However, Kurt Posch did show us this little gem he added to stop your left index finger from sliding off instead. Does anyone know if this is being used or has been used by other makers and if it's been given some specific name?
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 Post subject: Re: General classification of Ocarina anatomy
PostPosted: 01 Jul 2013, 22:36 

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That's interesting, i thought yours had it as well, i wonder if he discontinued the thumb nail indent? Mine is an older model from what i can recall when we bought these from him in Budrio... It is a shame the cappello is gone as well, though both have the little gem.

I guess as an additional diagram, one could label all the interior elements of an ocarina. Like where the windway stops (a measurement very important for making at least), i tend to call it the 'windway barrier', but others might call it something else. Then there's baffles, pre-assembly undercut holes etc etc. Eh, maybe if i can find my mechanical pencil i'll do a drawing.

Edit: Well i made a feeble sketch, i guess this would be more related to construction, and is pretty much general knowledge. But still, i wonder if anyone uses different terminology in this area? The voicings for instance. I've often labelled both shield shaped and ovular shaped voicings as 'elongated' before, knowing the difference in my head, but of course no one would know which i mean if i use the term 'elongated' for both :/

Image

Oh, and forgive the baffle, i don't utilise them, so i just drew an imaginary wall of clay there (poorly).


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 Post subject: Re: General classification of Ocarina anatomy
PostPosted: 02 Jul 2013, 01:08 

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Bas wrote:
Yes, the pointy end is the "capello" (according to Google translate this means "hair", though there might be a more appropriate translation) and the body is the "corpo" (which just translates to body) I think.

It's cappello, with double p, which translates to cap or hat, which makes sense when one has in mind the transversal assembly method of Vicinelli. I often make that spelling mistake, too. :oops:


Ross, Jade, those are great diagrams! I recommend we make this topic sticky :D



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 Post subject: Re: General classification of Ocarina anatomy
PostPosted: 02 Jul 2013, 02:03 

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Oops! That spelling error seems to be contagious, because I had remembered it from you spelling it before :oops: . I even told Jade it was with one p. I have fixed it in my previous post. Stickying this topic is a great idea!

Moderator edit: This topic has been stickied.


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 Post subject: Re: General classification of Ocarina anatomy
PostPosted: 04 Jul 2013, 20:30 

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Bas wrote:
I even told Jade it was with one p. I have fixed it in my previous post.


Ha Bas! xD So my mac i was right in the first place! :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: General classification of Ocarina anatomy
PostPosted: 17 Jul 2013, 16:17 

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jade, I could not download your diagram....hummmm, wish I could. It would be nice to be able to use all the above tools of which I know only a few of them. Will be posting images too and again, it would be nice to know if it worked.

Ross, What is YOUR purpose for the tuning hole, to get two instruments in tune with one another, to tune the fundamental in the greenware, to compensate for temperature?

I just added one to a trial. The ocarina fundamental was raised 1/2 step. (Ha, Maybe I'll try someday to finish these experiments and tune to a perfect c, or g, or d.........

Andy


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 Post subject: Re: General classification of Ocarina anatomy
PostPosted: 19 Jul 2013, 12:59 

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Ocarinas arent really instruments I would tune in compensation to another instrument, so the tuning hole wouldnt be used in that manner, at least in my case. On 12 hole ocarinas I add a 13th hole sometimes, a very small tuning hole on the side. That is used to bring low A (the base chamber tone) to pitch if it proves to be too flat. Ideally, this is omitted but sometimes due to the inherent nature of hand building, it happens from a slight misplacement of a little bit of clay somewhere which makes the chamber a bit larger than would be comfortable for the scale to play in tune.
From there, I can make low A and B in tune the standard way without issue and if I find that after firing Id like to increase the breath curve a little bit, plugging the tuning hole helps to do so.

On 11 hole ocarinas, depending on the process of construction, I sometimes use an additional tuning hole as well in the aforementioned manner- one that is too small to be used as a functional hole. It serves also as a sort of 'air bleed out' for pressure inside the ocarina, which can audibly clean up the low B and make it tonally stronger. Furthermore, depending on construction and breath requirement, adding this tuning hole can actually drop the pitch a touch by allowing this bleed off of pressurization. For ocarinas with a strong breath, this can be useful.

But at the end of the day, I prefer to omit the extra tuning hole if I can help it. Simplifying the system is also way more ideal than overtly complicating it haha


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 Post subject: Re: General classification of Ocarina anatomy
PostPosted: 19 Jul 2013, 13:20 

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Quote:
Furthermore, depending on construction and breath requirement, adding this tuning hole can actually drop the pitch a touch by allowing this bleed off of pressurization. For ocarinas with a strong breath, this can be useful.


wow, never heard of a tuning hole lowering the pitch. We always placed them, up to three, to raise the pitch---voice with one, then add two more that are usually and hopefully stopped. It also seems in open flutes, the hole degrades the timbre of all the flutes.

Ross, if one makes ocarinas with slabs and press molds, are those instrurments always in perfect tune?

Are your cast ones always in tune?.....window size/er....voicing holes, labium degree, channel exits all can affect the fundamental......Ha sometimes it is good to live in the sticks where no one else plays with you!


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 Post subject: Re: General classification of Ocarina anatomy
PostPosted: 12 Dec 2013, 04:31 

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two questions:
1. What does "sticky" mean?
2. voicing: "making the voicing" and "when voicing (article is deleted) has been completed"...I have been totally confused for years about the use of the word "voicing" by various makers and musicologists.


Jade, what are your reasons for the baffles that you have drawn? I have just been able to open this file and wow!

i too am considering baffles for helping blowing pressures and finger hole sizes. Are these your reasons?

Andy


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 Post subject: Re: General classification of Ocarina anatomy
PostPosted: 13 Dec 2013, 08:27 

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acox 70 wrote:
1. What does "sticky" mean?
A topic that is "sticky" will stick to the top of the list of topics in the sub-forum, ignoring the usual sorting of topics by the time of the latest post in them.
acox 70 wrote:
2. voicing: "making the voicing" and "when voicing (article is deleted) has been completed"...I have been totally confused for years about the use of the word "voicing" by various makers and musicologists.
Yes, it is a very imprecise word and different people mean different things when using it. I usually use it to refer to ocarina's sound-producing elements without being very specific, i.e. when precision is less important than generality. Therefore, when I say voicing, I usually mean all of the following, together: the aperture (the voicing hole or the window), the labium (which is either the edge of the ramp or the whole ramp) and the windway exit (and everything else that is included with that).
acox 70 wrote:
Jade, what are your reasons for the baffles that you have drawn? I have just been able to open this file and wow!

i too am considering baffles for helping blowing pressures and finger hole sizes. Are these your reasons?
I don't believe Jade makes ocarinas with baffles. The one ocarina Jade made for me certainly doesn't have baffles (and it is an exceptionally great little instrument). So it seems to me they are drawn here only for the sake of completeness. I could be wrong on that, so please correct me if I am. My experience with ocarinas with baffles has been "meh" at best, I'm not very enthusiastic about the concept (though, I was very excited when I first heard about it). If you want, we could discuss the physics of baffles in ocarinas in another topic.


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 Post subject: Re: General classification of Ocarina anatomy
PostPosted: 13 Dec 2013, 13:24 

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Quote:
Yes, it is a very imprecise word and different people mean different things when using it. I usually use it to refer to ocarina's sound-producing elements without being very specific, i.e. when precision is less important than generality. Therefore, when I say voicing, I usually mean all of the following, together: the aperture (the voicing hole or the window), the labium (which is either the edge of the ramp or the whole ramp) and the windway exit (and everything else that is included with that).


Kresimir, Yes, this is exactly what I understood it to mean, certainly not one element.

Thanks so very much for this...and BTW, the sigillata worked, but I did not apply it quite thick enough...but it worked!


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 Post subject: Re: General classification of Ocarina anatomy
PostPosted: 28 Sep 2014, 15:27 

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Good post!


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