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 Post subject: help with top note whistle
PostPosted: 12 Aug 2013, 16:27 

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Man do I need help with a top-note whistling sound when I blow too hard. It seems that the pitch is tuned and good, but if I blow a bit harder, there is a high-pitched whistling sound.

Tried all sorts of things to remedy this but have been unsuccessful....any ideas?

Andy


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 Post subject: Re: help with top note whistle
PostPosted: 12 Aug 2013, 23:26 

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Is this the same problem you were having before with the upper notes whistling?


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 Post subject: Re: help with top note whistle
PostPosted: 13 Aug 2013, 00:31 

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Senza sapere alcune informazioni, è veramente un'impresa stabilire esattamente la causa dello squittìo. Bisognerebbe avere delle chiare immagini del foro voicing, dell'ocarina, sapere come è fatta la dima con cui si forma la windway. La sezione della zeppa troppo affilata potrebbe esserne una causa, come un suo cattivo allineamento o la sua inclinazione errata rispetto alla zeppa stessa. Eventualmente provare con una piccola lampadina direzionale, ad illuminare la zeppa partendo dall'imboccatura del canale dell'aria. Sull'intradosso e sull'estradosso della parte del foro voicing in opposizione si deve formare una proiezione luminosa molto netta, senza grossi aloni.


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 Post subject: Re: help with top note whistle
PostPosted: 13 Aug 2013, 00:40 

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I agree, pictures would be very helpful for this question. Mainly the voicing.


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 Post subject: Re: help with top note whistle
PostPosted: 13 Aug 2013, 00:53 

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This has only happened in the last couple of ocarinas...Ha, just as I was thinking I was getting along okay. Never have I had this to happen except when the lip was too close to the wind channel exit. Often times a double lip is necessary; a secondary ramp then is created—it helps quite often with ridding a “choked” sound. A blunt lip can help on low notes, a sharp lip on high notes. The window walls can also play a role in all of this……even the “roof” height above the windchannel exit can make a difference.
I simply do not know which is doing what and hate to ruin yet another ocarina only because I can’t determine the cause.

Thanks for all of your replies, and please if you have other ideas, do tell.

The voicing is the same that I’ve been using. I will be changing the wooden wedge that makes the wind channel.


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 Post subject: Re: help with top note whistle
PostPosted: 13 Aug 2013, 01:05 

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maybe a better explanation might be this:
Many top notes in ocarinas that I have and have heard do not sound "musical" to me--- often times that high note sounds strained or pushed. I've tired to make this note sound with the same timbre as the other notes.

the last two ocarinas I have made have a good sounding high/top note, BUT IF one then blows too hard or the attack is too quickly made, there is a whistle sound. So if one is very careful playing these instruments, everything is find and dandy, but if there is not caution, then a whistling sound can occur.

does this make better sense?


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 Post subject: Re: help with top note whistle
PostPosted: 13 Aug 2013, 04:43 

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It still sounds like sensitivity issues, what shape window do you use?

Have you tried lengthening the window on this ocarina like the other one?


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 Post subject: Re: help with top note whistle
PostPosted: 13 Aug 2013, 12:41 

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Quote:
It still sounds like sensitivity issues,


Ha! What are all the possibilities that this might mean? Do explain Spirit, and yes as stated, i've tried all I knew, even the height of the wind channel exit wall. Do you do this?


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 Post subject: Re: help with top note whistle
PostPosted: 13 Aug 2013, 13:08 

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Tytoalba, Thanks for your reply. Unfortunately the forum's translator is not working and when I cut and paste your reply, the translators I can use are a not as good as the one this forum uses.

One of the most rewarding accomplishments in making any fipple flute is the voicing. I continue to make experiments with both the bamboo fipple flute and the ocarina.

Thebamboo flute guilds stress the importance of the alignment of the wind channel. The design of the channel is also so very important. I've notread any description of the wedge others use for making the channel; are they flat,are they of increased width, do they subscribe to the focalink's design of increased widthand depth of the channel at the blowing end (as with bamboo guilds)

sorry for the typing. it seems I cannot make corrections at the moment. Hummmmm, no translation and no way to make corrections. Hope this does not mean something wrong with the computer.


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 Post subject: Re: help with top note whistle
PostPosted: 13 Aug 2013, 16:16 

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Is the highest note properly tuned? Or do you find yourself having to force the proper note by increasing breath pressure more then you should need to?


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 Post subject: Re: help with top note whistle
PostPosted: 13 Aug 2013, 16:59 

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spirit, I've tired to explain this. Yeah, I know words are inadequate for this purpose.....it really is the note's attack, AND seemingly, it is one of the well-known problems with the high notes. Certainly there are answers.

Will be trying to do some drawings and will post.

Andy


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 Post subject: Re: help with top note whistle
PostPosted: 13 Aug 2013, 17:55 

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see attached.

wow the camera is sensitive to its focal length's focus.

the top voicing works wonderfully, the bottom has a whistle......don't know if anything can be determined with this visual. the secondary ramp is not as great as tin he top one

I really think it has to do with the wind channel and its relationship to the lip


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 Post subject: Re: help with top note whistle
PostPosted: 13 Aug 2013, 20:39 

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I don't really know how to solve this problem, sometimes it is difficult to actually understand what the situation of the ocarina is through just words alone. You may want to PM Ross about a question like this. It seems that you use a window shape similar to him, at least closer to him than me. I prefer a tear drop shape window. All I can say for now is that in my experience I have found that this problem is normally fixed by very slight adjustments in the length of the window. If there is almost a feeling of it takes a split second for the high note to catch then normally it is because the window is too short a distance away. Also what could be causing your problem is too sharp of an edge, aim for the thickness of the labium edge to be about the same thickness as the windway height.


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 Post subject: Re: help with top note whistle
PostPosted: 14 Aug 2013, 00:04 

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does this wedge tool look as the ones you makers use?


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 Post subject: Re: help with top note whistle
PostPosted: 14 Aug 2013, 01:22 

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The only thing I do differently unless I'm not reading the pictures wrong is that I cannot see beneath my labium edge when looking down the wind channel. To clarify, my labium edge is not centered I have it pushed downward farther so that I can only see the labium edge and the upward ramp.


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 Post subject: Re: help with top note whistle
PostPosted: 14 Aug 2013, 01:43 

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the little white area under the lip's edge....it's a bit hard to see, but it is there

so you do not use a "flat" wedge as I see many using on youTube


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 Post subject: Re: help with top note whistle
PostPosted: 14 Aug 2013, 04:43 

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Perhaps I totally misread that picture, when looking down the wind channel it the ocarina window facing toward the ceiling, or toward the ground?


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 Post subject: Re: help with top note whistle
PostPosted: 14 Aug 2013, 09:12 

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In linea di massima dalle immagini non si notano difetti macroscopici. Vedendo sezione schematizzata, posso solo dire che sembrerebbe esserci eccessiva asportazione di materiale al di sotto del Labium. Questa condizione per le ocarine nelle condizioni di scarsa pressione interna, potrebbe essere la causa del problema.
Posso solo proporti di adottare una sezione molto simile all'immagine che allego. La misura di 6,94 è forfettaria ed indica i millimetri di profondità massima del canale dell'aria. Questa misura potrai diminuirla, ma non il contrario.
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 Post subject: Re: help with top note whistle
PostPosted: 14 Aug 2013, 11:52 

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Quote:
Perhaps I totally misread that picture, when looking down the wind channel it the ocarina window facing toward the ceiling, or toward the ground?


I did not proof this letter. "When looking down INTO th wind channel FROM the blowing end..

the last little drawing is just that---looking down into the wind channel from the blowing end --the sliver of light is the light coming from the window opening.

I'm working on the computer to see why I can't translate the Italian reply....hope to fix that today.


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 Post subject: Re: help with top note whistle
PostPosted: 14 Aug 2013, 16:57 

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But when looking down the windway, is the ocarina upside down or right side up?


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