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 Post subject: Questions about vibrato.
PostPosted: 03 Mar 2013, 21:42 

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For the lack of better category, I decided to post my question here.

After about 1.7 year of ocarina playing sometimes I can't make my diaphragm produce a faster vibrato, I need to force it. Sometimes my diaphragm refuse to let me vibrato at all. Often I can produce nice vibrato that feels absolutely natural, sometimes I just can't. What may be the cause of my problem? Maybe I don't keep my posture correctly all the time?

Also I would like to ask you Little Geese users one more thing: Do you prefer throat, or diaphragm vibrato? I personally prefer diaphragm vibrato, it feels more natural to me.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions about vibrato.
PostPosted: 03 Mar 2013, 22:13 

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For start, as a euphonium player. There is only one correct way to do vibrato. On the diafragma. If you do it in troath you are just changing the pitch of the note.

The diafragma is a muscle, as all the muscles it need to be trained, te only way to have a better vibrato is practice and practice and more practice...


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 Post subject: Re: Questions about vibrato.
PostPosted: 04 Mar 2013, 01:11 

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I agree with Miguel when it comes to using the diaphragm over the throat. I have actually never heard of using the throat for vibrato, but it seems less efficient and more forced then what using the diaphragm requires. I would say posture should be upright so that your diaphragm is not compressed to begin with but that is somewhat obvious. Like Miguel said though, it takes practice to become proficient with vibrato. It also comes easier to some then others. There are multiple exercises that you can do in order to help with this. I find that just going up the scale starting with a slower vibrato the first time through and then building on the speed each time you begin the scale again is a good place to start. But I also find that trying vibrato without the ocarina can help too. All you do is pretend you are blowing into the ocarina, and just do your normal vibrato. Kinda like shivering :D It is a little more difficult, but I think it helps train your body so that when you have an actual instrument it is somewhat easier. But this is just my opinion

Hope this helps


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 Post subject: Re: Questions about vibrato.
PostPosted: 05 Mar 2013, 10:39 

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The rule of doing or not to do vibrato is simple, it's your way of feeling the music. BUT... if you don't know how to do vibrato corectly DON'T do it!.
For exemple in euphonium or tuba exames, we quote for a vibrato in the expression line of the examination sheet. If we see that the player is feelling the music and the vibrato comes naturaly on that "feel" (it's not a fake vibrato) and if it's good in terms of tecnic AND if it's balance in terms of speed with the tempo we quote that high.
It's important to know the origin of the music and have that on consideration to do expresion or not. I always say to my students and sometime I ask that on exames: wen the it has composed? for what instrument? from who (and what was is instrument because sometimes the composer think diferent)? and if it is a dance on something traditional form each country or region (because of the way of using the tempo balance a italian valse is diferent of a austrian valse). And finally if it was originally a singhing tune, it better to know the letter, to do the frases corectly and to know how to breath (and, no singher do vibratos... except Pavarotti) so please don't do vibratos on Nessum Dorma or Fishermem of Pearls...


So, resuming:
Vibrato yes if:
1. good for expression the feeling from the player with the music (not a fake one).
2. the tecnic is correct (don't change the pitch of the note or the volume of the note).
3. it's balance with the tempo, a slow wave on Andante or a fast almost trill on fast tempos (for exemple I use vibrato on a steady note on a fast tempo, to keap the ritmic and to force the stress of the music like showing that something will happen next).
4. And most important don't exagerate on vibrato.... please... a excelent exemple about wen and how do a vibrato... and probably one of the best tecnics.


David Childs - Gabriel´s Oboe:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCqlMcUiFSk&feature=related


And it looks great on a Tenor G ocarina it will use the full range of it.



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 Post subject: Re: Questions about vibrato.
PostPosted: 05 Mar 2013, 18:26 

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I agree with Miguel - while well-executed vibrato is a great tool to express emotion, on an instrument like an ocarina, it is much, much better not to do any vibrato at all than to do it even a little bit too much (this is true for almost all wind instruments).


In contrast with bowed string instruments, vibrato on woodwind instruments is a very, very delicate thing - it is very easy to do it too much and ruin the expression completely. A great care is necessary to be sure not to sound like a goat being electrocuted. This is especially true for the ocarina, whose intonation is so sensitive to breath.


The technique for good vibrato is not very difficult, but knowing when it is appropriate to do vibrato can be difficult - most people do it too much, even with good technique. Too much vibrato can sound grotesque, which may be a desirable effect on some pieces, but also completely void of taste on other pieces.


For classical music, I would be very careful about vibrato - so far that I would avoid it completely, except maybe for the most heart-wrenching of melodies. Popular and jazz music can tolerate some vibrato and so can traditional music, but when it is appropriate.


For examples of good vibrato on the ocarina just listen to how Fabio Galliani plays the ocarina (if you haven't yet, go subscribe to his YouTube channel). Here is Fabio playing The Londonderry Air (better known as Danny Boy), with just the right amount of vibrato (in other words: not too much):



As Miguel's example already indicates, Gabriel's Oboe by Morricone should, if possible, be played with a lot of vibrato. Here it is played in duet by Emiliano Bernagozzi and Fabio Galliani (this a great example of what "a lot of vibrato" should sound like - notice how very subtle it is):



But if they had played it with only a little bit more vibrato, the beautiful effect would be completely ruined and the result would sound like two goats being tortured.



For an example of EXTREME vibrato on the ocarina, listen to the recording from the year 1905 of Mose Tapiero playing Il Pastore Svizzero on the ocarina:

Attachment:
pastore.mp3

For more of Tapiero's recordings, visit http://staff.washington.edu/gibbs/mose.html. For today's standards and tastes, this is definitely too much vibrato and, to our ears, it should sound a bit grotesque. However, there is no doubt in the excellence of Tapiero's feeling for the music, as well as his technique on the ocarina and his vibrato is well-executed and, for that time period, quite appropriate. Tapiero uses vibrato mainly as an ornament and that heavily ornamented style makes his ocarina sound like a bird singing.



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 Post subject: Re: Questions about vibrato.
PostPosted: 06 Mar 2013, 18:21 

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Thank you for all the answers, and great examples.

EDIT:
Though I would like to say that I know when to use vibrato. By saying that sometimes I have to force my diaphragm to vibrato, I mean that my diaphragm won't always work as it supposed to. Vibrato is one of the things I focus on while practicing for a long time, it enabled me to vibrato much, much faster, but still sometimes my diaphragm just won't vibrato properly, or even at all when I want it .


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