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 Post subject: Examples of holding the ocarina on high notes
PostPosted: 03 Mar 2013, 00:04 

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Moderator edit: This topic was split from Spirit Wind Ocarina.

This was posted in another topic:


Quote:
A typical technique is to use your pinky and ring fingers to sort of 'scissor-hold' the tip of the ocarina nose. This gives you a great deal more balance when gripping the ocarina on those tricky high note fingerings. You want your hands to be able to move as fast as possible without losing grip of the ocarina. here are some examples:

this is an example as demonstrated by Sojiro
Spoiler
Image


and this is an alternative hold, though less stable than the former, demonstrated on an ogawa ocarina.
Spoiler
Image

In my opinion, both of these are terrible ways of holding the ocarina. I'd like to argue that, as far as holding the ocarina on high notes is concerned, there is no significant difference between 10 and 12-hole ocarinas and between Italian and oriental ocarinas, except that oriental ocarinas have two difficult high notes (as in, having to move the right thumb - E and F), whereas Italian ocarinas have only one (F). And I don't care if that is Sojiro in that example or not, that is not a good technique of holding the ocarina on the high notes. It is too slow and clumsy.



EDIT: The third post in this topic contains an example I consider to be the correct way of holding the ocarina on highest notes.



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 Post subject: Re: Examples of holding the ocarina on high notes
PostPosted: 03 Mar 2013, 00:27 

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I have seen the style used by sojiro, but I have never seen the palming form before. However I do not use either of these. I normally just wrap my smallest finger around the top of the nose and then place my index finger against the base of the mouthpiece. I begin using this grip once I get to G on alto C models. (first note played using only left hand) I think it helps with the speed of transitioning.

 


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 Post subject: Re: Examples of holding the ocarina on high notes
PostPosted: 03 Mar 2013, 00:39 

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Spirit wrote:
I have seen the style used by sojiro, but I have never seen the palming form before. However I do not use either of these. I normally just wrap my smallest finger around the top of the nose and then place my index finger against the base of the mouthpiece. I begin using this grip once I get to G on alto C models. (first not played using only left hand) I think it helps with the speed of transitioning.

Yes, that seems like a better way of doing it, however, there is no need to wrap the right pinky around the tip of the ocarina - it is enough to position it so that it touches the tip. Regarding the index finger, Alberto Napoleone Mezzetti (The Mezzetti Ocarina Tutor, page 9) recommended putting the right index finger near the mouthpiece, but it is certainly not necessary to do that. What is important is that the right thumb is always touching the ocarina and providing support, regardless whether the right thumb hole is opened or closed.


Fabio Galliani demonstrates how to hold the ocarina on high F (on the oriental ocarina, this would include high E as well): https://youtu.be/CT4x66VjKLA?t=4m42s.
I think this is the simplest and the quickest way of doing it (regardless whether the ocarina is Italian or oriental).



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 Post subject: Re: Examples of holding the ocarina on high notes
PostPosted: 03 Mar 2013, 03:27 

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Yes when I say wrap, I more mean place on the tip. I don't go near as far as the demonstrator does in his video.


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 Post subject: Re: Examples of holding the ocarina on high notes
PostPosted: 03 Mar 2013, 11:08 

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I think that moving the finger for out of the region of the holes is a mistake, in every instrument we say that the correct position of the fingers out of the holes is the one that will provide the shortest movemment to reach the hole.
So moving the pinky out the holes or worse (put the palm against the ocarina because that move out all the fingers from is lines) are a inlogical way to play.
For me the logical tecnic is the one descrived on mezzeti, easy to do and with less movemment. A solution is using the bagpipes thecnic of rolling down the finger out of the hole, can work in fast tempo.
Of course that will depend of the size and weight of the ocarina.


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 Post subject: Re: Examples of holding the ocarina on high notes
PostPosted: 03 Mar 2013, 13:26 

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Sono della stessa opinione di Miguel, ovvero considero dannoso lo spostamento di tutta la mano e dall'asse verticale dei fori, come del resto si insegna in tutte le scuole di strumenti a fiato.
Così facendo ci si allontana troppo dai fori e la loro posizione può essere ritrovata con difficoltà.
Ovviamente un grande virtuoso come Fabio non conosce difficoltà in nessuna occasione.
Io uso la tecnica opposta a quella da lui indicata, ovvero effettuo una rotazione della falangetta del dito pollice destro portando l'appoggio alla ocarina dal polpastrello (in posizione "foro chiuso") alla punta del dito pollice (in posizione di "foro aperto").
Questa tecnica, permetta alla mano di restare immobile e delle rimanenti 4 dita di restare a disposizione dei rispettivi fori.
Comunque, quello che conta è il risultato che può esser valido in qualsiasi modo, pur rilevando che la sua efficacia deve essere provata in passi veloci, dove si mette alla prova ogni teoria.

Esempio foro chiuso.
Attachment:
P1040744.jpg

Esempio foro aperto.
Attachment:
P1040746.jpg


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 Post subject: Re: Examples of holding the ocarina on high notes
PostPosted: 03 Mar 2013, 16:03 

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Giorgioca wrote:
Io uso la tecnica opposta a quella da lui indicata, ovvero effettuo una rotazione della falangetta del dito pollice destro portando l'appoggio alla ocarina dal polpastrello (in posizione "foro chiuso") alla punta del dito pollice (in posizione di "foro aperto").

Kurt Posch, another great ocarinist and ocarina constructor from Austria, also recommends the same thing. In fact, on some ocarinas made by Posch, there is an indentation for the tip of the thumb:

Attachment:
PoschG2_back.jpg

Notice that both of these techniques (the one that Fabio demonstrated in the video and the one that Giorgio showed on the photos) leave the right thumb touching the ocarina, providing all the stability that is necessary.



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 Post subject: Re: Examples of holding the ocarina on high notes
PostPosted: 30 Apr 2013, 09:46 

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Ok this is much better than the 'wrap pinky under' technique. From some quick experiments both would require using a different hole positioning to be ergonomically optimal.


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